Comments on: Do do XP

By: Don’t do XP « Agile Anarchy

Don’t do XP « Agile Anarchy — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:50:13 +0000

[...] October 12, 2009 · 36 Comments Steve Freeman offers a counter-argument on his blog entitled Do do Scrum. [...]

By: Tobias Mayer

Tobias Mayer — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:46:55 +0000

@Niklas
> I get the feeling that Tobias got carried away by the blog rule of being provocative in order to get readers
That may be true, but nevertheless I do believe that selling XP to clients is more counter-productive than productive. I agree that XP “has done a tremendous service for the software community” and I also think it is time to move past the prescriptive nature of XP, and focus on how to guide people to good practice. If, as everyone in the XP community seems to saying, people are not finding good practice for themselves, I can only conclude that we do a lousy job of coaching and mentoring.

If we guide well, they may find XP and take it on wholeheartedly, or they may find or invent additional practices. In either case the empowerment that will bring is worth the wait.

By: Niklas Bjørnerstedt

Niklas Bjørnerstedt — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:16:22 +0000

I agree with Steve here. I get the feeling that Tobias got carried away by the blog rule of being provocative in order to get readers. XP has done a tremendous service for the software community. As with patterns one often forgotten value with XP is that it put names on things that existed earlier but were often mixed up.

By: The Storming phase of the (agile) IT world « Paircoaching’s Weblog

The Storming phase of the (agile) IT world « Paircoaching’s Weblog — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:44:38 +0000

[...] Bob’s response. Tobias writing a blog post to stop doing XP. vs Steve reaction’s to keep doing XP (Read Tobias answer in the comments to understand the whole discussion) I could add a [...]

By: Tobias Mayer

Tobias Mayer — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:07:59 +0000

Steve, there is a bit of a misunderstanding. When I said I haven’t “done XP” I was using the reference from my previous blog of “Doing Scrum” being meaningless.

I have certainly used all the practices of XP, and I like them. There is nothing about the values and practices of XP that I dislike. I have also found that indeed they lead to better code, better value and a happier work environment. What I don’t like is the idea that Scrum or other Agile coaches have to tell teams to “do XP”. It is counterproductive. As you so rightly point out most software companies are so far from having quality code that throwing XP at them will be meaningless.

Yes, the software craftsmanship movement grew out of XP, and perhaps this outgrowing is telling us that the focus should now simply be on good craftsmanship within an empowered environment. You (and others) may use the term XP as a short way of saying that, but it is not always (and perhaps rarely) useful. Focus on the practices, not the methodology. That was the message of my blog post. I knew it would offend people, but offense was not my primary goal

Anyway, good post and thanks for writing a counter-argument to mine.

By: Tweets that mention Do do XP | Steve Freeman -- Topsy.com

Tweets that mention Do do XP | Steve Freeman -- Topsy.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:34:11 +0000

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Marc Evers. Marc Evers said: RT @johanneslink: "do do xp" http://bit.ly/4nRgJi [...]